I oscillate between wondering if Stoicism is a good set of values or a psyop pushed by Ryan Holiday and the like to get us to be stone.
I still kind of think it's the second, with the sense of pride people seem to have when they say things like, "You were the one who took offense, when they say your mom's a cunt." It's like, yeah, okay. If that were coming from someone who seemed believable, it might be wise, and it often seems that way with the guy Accepting the Universe on YouTube, who talks about that stuff, but it usually just sounds like another person on the Internet pretending to be superior by Telling you to shut up.
Good post, and there are clearly huge advantages to following this stuff. It's just such an incredibly fine line to walk without revealing yourself to be suppressing your emotions and proud of it.
At the end of the day, whether other people are putting on airs or trying to seem superior or cool is immaterial. The reframings, exercises, and system of morality work, or they don't. Whether there are assholes using it doesn't really change its underlying value to you or anyone else.
I know amazing people who meditate. I know people who meditate who use the concentration it builds to become better assholes since they only adopted the tool but left the ethics behind.
There's a reason why "broicism," is a term in circulation.
We might find loving Christians and hate-filled Christians. Same same can be said of every sect, creed, or system of belief.
Try to make myself a better, more moral, and more effective person, and let the rest play out how it will. I only control myself.
That's about the best response you could have, I think. I get it, and it really is a perfect little article about what Stoicism does. I just look forward to the day when someone isn't going to hop over and say, "You're doing it to yourself," when someone screws me, lol.
Thanks for this article. Stoic philosophy + Victor Frankl resonates with positive energy. But, what about Epictetus? He was born a slave, whose master broke his leg, and he refused to allow his lame leg and bad circumstances at birth interfere with becoming a great teacher.
Epictetus is great, and another example of rising above an unpleasant, unfair fate. Honestly, there are dozens of other examples I could have drawn on, but an article can only be so long.
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. ~ Calvin Coolidge
Thanks for this post! I consider myself an aspiring Stoic, but I hadn't seen Andrew Perlot's publication! I really enjoy his writing style on the topic! I subscribed right away!
Fantastic post. I’ve been in conversation with Marcus Aurelius since 1976. Appreciate your perspective and insights on the relevance of Stoicism in navigating today’s challenges. Well done, Andrew.
It's kind of like your ship becomes so over-burdened with things you have gathered and things you think you need or just hang onto that it is pure relief when it finally sinks...as long as you don't go down with the ship. You then discover you don't need a yacht to carry your possessions, but that a rowboat will do quite nicely.
It feels like mind f’ing myself. My husband hit my dog today for no reason in my house in front of me, for example. Tell me how to stoic my way out of that one without completely deluding myself? I’m serious. Please explain this because I really want to grasp the concept.
"Stoic way out of that one." isn't the right framing. Stoicism isn't about escaping or deluding. It's not about telling yourself an immoral thing is morally good.
It's an opportunity to grow. How that applies to your situation is up to you.
Some questions — off the top of my head and without knowing your situation — that might be worth asking: Why am I angry? What does this tell me about myself, my values, the life situation I've entered into, and the actions and values of the others involved?
I can't control anyone else, but I can control myself — how will I react? What conversations will I have? What will I say in them? What will my demeanour be? How do I make sure that I act with virtue in this situation —wisdom, justice, courage, and moderation? What would lack of virtue look like in this situation?
"Anti-fragile"? What does this mean? I can certainly understand trying to balance emotions with reason. I have battled negative emotions all my life. I have learned slowly but surely, painfully, to cast my burdens on Christ, as He is the only One Who hears me. WEW
The later category is how we expect humanity to function across multiple domains already.
Examples:
Introduce a pathogen and if it doesn't kill us, our immune system ramps and makes us immune or highly resistant to that pathogen in the future. Repeatedly lift heavy things and after a period of recovery we grow stronger.
But what if you're anxious? Anxiety spikes when we get exposed to something we fear. It's tempting to run from these things, but that is a recipe for getting ever weaker and more anxious.
Any therapist or psychologist will tell you that avoiding our fears doesn't help in all but a few specific situations. Instead, gradual exposure to what we fear degrades fears and anxieties over time.
Afraid of elevators? First get close to the door. When that gets easy, go back and push the call button. When that gets easy, step to the threshold. When that gets easy, step inside. Etc.
It's by turning and facing our fears that we grow stronger. That's the basic premise of psychological growth.
Another aspect of that is learning that emotions represent our judgements, and judgements may be changed to ones that serve us better.
Andrew, I appreciate your time in offering an answer to my question. I agree with some of this. I must have some strength in all this, otherwise I would have died long ago. I am 71.
Life assaults us, all of us. I think some learning as you describe, is good. Problem is for people like me, who are deep sensitive souls and particularly ones like me who are empaths, who feel things and especially the distress of others, I remain very cautious. I have been a loner most of my life, as a protection against being overwhelmed by the pressure of the world. I used to medicate with drugs, sex and rebellion. When none of that worked for more than a brief time, I finally stumbled back to the Household of God and His Son. Why God loves humanity so much, after the horrendous bad behavior of all the years of human existence, I have no idea. I just know my life works better with God and His Son at the forefront of it.
I could not be a stoic but I do sincerely appreciate some of the wisdom you share here. Thank you again, WEW
I oscillate between wondering if Stoicism is a good set of values or a psyop pushed by Ryan Holiday and the like to get us to be stone.
I still kind of think it's the second, with the sense of pride people seem to have when they say things like, "You were the one who took offense, when they say your mom's a cunt." It's like, yeah, okay. If that were coming from someone who seemed believable, it might be wise, and it often seems that way with the guy Accepting the Universe on YouTube, who talks about that stuff, but it usually just sounds like another person on the Internet pretending to be superior by Telling you to shut up.
Good post, and there are clearly huge advantages to following this stuff. It's just such an incredibly fine line to walk without revealing yourself to be suppressing your emotions and proud of it.
At the end of the day, whether other people are putting on airs or trying to seem superior or cool is immaterial. The reframings, exercises, and system of morality work, or they don't. Whether there are assholes using it doesn't really change its underlying value to you or anyone else.
I know amazing people who meditate. I know people who meditate who use the concentration it builds to become better assholes since they only adopted the tool but left the ethics behind.
There's a reason why "broicism," is a term in circulation.
We might find loving Christians and hate-filled Christians. Same same can be said of every sect, creed, or system of belief.
Try to make myself a better, more moral, and more effective person, and let the rest play out how it will. I only control myself.
That's about the best response you could have, I think. I get it, and it really is a perfect little article about what Stoicism does. I just look forward to the day when someone isn't going to hop over and say, "You're doing it to yourself," when someone screws me, lol.
Thanks for this article. Stoic philosophy + Victor Frankl resonates with positive energy. But, what about Epictetus? He was born a slave, whose master broke his leg, and he refused to allow his lame leg and bad circumstances at birth interfere with becoming a great teacher.
You're welcome!
Epictetus is great, and another example of rising above an unpleasant, unfair fate. Honestly, there are dozens of other examples I could have drawn on, but an article can only be so long.
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. ~ Calvin Coolidge
Thanks for this post! I consider myself an aspiring Stoic, but I hadn't seen Andrew Perlot's publication! I really enjoy his writing style on the topic! I subscribed right away!
Thanks so much!
Sure thing! I'm looking forward to reading more!
Thanks, Erik! Glad you were able to find him and connect! :)
Hm, I was practicing Stoic principles and had no idea.
Fantastic post. I’ve been in conversation with Marcus Aurelius since 1976. Appreciate your perspective and insights on the relevance of Stoicism in navigating today’s challenges. Well done, Andrew.
A few thoughts on navigating a Stoic's artist journey: https://ascottperry.substack.com/p/an-artists-adventures-with-marcus?r=nsqgj
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
Delicious content, thank you D.
Happy to host Andrew here, and glad that you enjoyed the piece!! 🙏🏻💜💫
It's kind of like your ship becomes so over-burdened with things you have gathered and things you think you need or just hang onto that it is pure relief when it finally sinks...as long as you don't go down with the ship. You then discover you don't need a yacht to carry your possessions, but that a rowboat will do quite nicely.
It feels like mind f’ing myself. My husband hit my dog today for no reason in my house in front of me, for example. Tell me how to stoic my way out of that one without completely deluding myself? I’m serious. Please explain this because I really want to grasp the concept.
"Stoic way out of that one." isn't the right framing. Stoicism isn't about escaping or deluding. It's not about telling yourself an immoral thing is morally good.
It's an opportunity to grow. How that applies to your situation is up to you.
Some questions — off the top of my head and without knowing your situation — that might be worth asking: Why am I angry? What does this tell me about myself, my values, the life situation I've entered into, and the actions and values of the others involved?
I can't control anyone else, but I can control myself — how will I react? What conversations will I have? What will I say in them? What will my demeanour be? How do I make sure that I act with virtue in this situation —wisdom, justice, courage, and moderation? What would lack of virtue look like in this situation?
Also, if these emotions feel too raw in your head, I find using an ancient philosophical journaling technique — Illeism — works wonders: https://andrewperlot.substack.com/p/how-to-journal-like-a-philosopher
Thank you for honestly giving me your answer. My knee jerk reaction to those types of situations is fear and flight.
Remaining calm and addressing the issue directly without escalating it - if at all possible - would be the way to go.
"Anti-fragile"? What does this mean? I can certainly understand trying to balance emotions with reason. I have battled negative emotions all my life. I have learned slowly but surely, painfully, to cast my burdens on Christ, as He is the only One Who hears me. WEW
Put something in a box and shake it really hard:
If it breaks, it's fragile.
If it remains undamaged, it's resilient.
If it gets stronger, it's antifragile.
The later category is how we expect humanity to function across multiple domains already.
Examples:
Introduce a pathogen and if it doesn't kill us, our immune system ramps and makes us immune or highly resistant to that pathogen in the future. Repeatedly lift heavy things and after a period of recovery we grow stronger.
But what if you're anxious? Anxiety spikes when we get exposed to something we fear. It's tempting to run from these things, but that is a recipe for getting ever weaker and more anxious.
Any therapist or psychologist will tell you that avoiding our fears doesn't help in all but a few specific situations. Instead, gradual exposure to what we fear degrades fears and anxieties over time.
Afraid of elevators? First get close to the door. When that gets easy, go back and push the call button. When that gets easy, step to the threshold. When that gets easy, step inside. Etc.
It's by turning and facing our fears that we grow stronger. That's the basic premise of psychological growth.
Another aspect of that is learning that emotions represent our judgements, and judgements may be changed to ones that serve us better.
Oversimplification, but that's the basic idea.
Andrew, I appreciate your time in offering an answer to my question. I agree with some of this. I must have some strength in all this, otherwise I would have died long ago. I am 71.
Life assaults us, all of us. I think some learning as you describe, is good. Problem is for people like me, who are deep sensitive souls and particularly ones like me who are empaths, who feel things and especially the distress of others, I remain very cautious. I have been a loner most of my life, as a protection against being overwhelmed by the pressure of the world. I used to medicate with drugs, sex and rebellion. When none of that worked for more than a brief time, I finally stumbled back to the Household of God and His Son. Why God loves humanity so much, after the horrendous bad behavior of all the years of human existence, I have no idea. I just know my life works better with God and His Son at the forefront of it.
I could not be a stoic but I do sincerely appreciate some of the wisdom you share here. Thank you again, WEW
So glad you liked it!